This is an interview conduced with Scott Shaw in
2006 and originally published in a European film magazine. It can also be found
in Scott Shaw's book, Zen Filmmaking.
By Kelty O’Bannon
Scott
Shaw, the creator of Zen Filmmaking, has continued to change the way filmmakers
view their process of creation. He has been writing about this style of
filmmaking for the better part of twenty years and has taken-in many converts
to his realms of understanding.
Shaw
is much more than a filmmaker with a unique set of ideals about filmmaking,
however. In fact, he came to the art form of filmmaking rather late in life —
at the age of thirty-two. Prior to his emersion into the craft, he was a
well-known martial artist and a well-published author on the subject of eastern
religion. Each of these factors helped Shaw to create a unique and new
understanding of the art and craft of filmmaking.
Though
Scott Shaw was not the first film director to employ improvisational acting as
a tool in the creation of a film, he was the first to formalize a method where
each filmmaker can embrace the most natural elements of improv and Zen Buddhism
and then integrate them into a method where they can utilize these foundational
assets and create a truly unique piece of filmmaking. He has created this new
style of filmmaking with such precision that many noted filmmakers have
borrowed from his ideology and integrated this method into their own.
For
this article, I speak to Scott Shaw in a restaurant in Beverly Hills,
California. Beverly Hills is a city that flanks Hollywood. We sit at a table
surrounded by many of the Hollywood A-list players, who are having lunch. Due
to our surrounding, I cannot help but be motivated to ask Scott Shaw my first
question.
What do you think of Hollywood?
I think it’s all bullshit.
What do you mean?
If you are referring to the
generic term, “Hollywood,” where all the films are made and all the people get
famous, and everyone thinks this is the place to be, then it’s all bullshit.
Most people who come here to be famous leave very disappointed. Hollywood has
nothing to do with art. And, fame has nothing to do with talent.
What does it have to do with?
Luck and who you know.
Why then did you get involved
in the filmmaking profession?
Like I always say, I hope to be a
beacon of light in a sea of darkness.
What do you mean by that?
Well, first of all, I didn’t come
from a family based in the Hollywood industry. I didn’t grow up rich. And, I
didn’t have friends who could walk me though the door and get me inside the
industry. So, I had no easy way in. Plus, I wasn’t a pretty girl or a man
willing to fulfill the desire of other men to get whatever I wanted. And,
believe me, that is the ticket that many successful actors, actresses, and
filmmakers have used to become successful in the industry.
So, what did you do?
I simply embraced my art.
What do you mean?
When I first stated out, I had
the same aspirations as most of the people who come to Hollywood to get into
the industry. The only difference with me was, I was born here. Just like
everybody, I hoped to be a star overnight. Which caused me to turn down a lot
of roles that probably could have actually helped my career. But, I was also
lucky. I got my SAG card really quickly. Actually, I was cast for a role in a
union film on like my second audition and I began to move my way through the
industry.
What happened next?
I quickly saw that most of the
industry, particularly the independent sector of the industry, where new actors
get their feet wet, was full of a lot of wanta-bes who waste everybody’s time
making promises about films they will never complete.
What happened to you next?
Well, I met Donald G. Jackson and
I created Zen Filmmaking.
Wow, what a jump.
Yeah, I guess it was. But, you
have to understand, all of life, not just being in the film industry, is based
upon foundations. By the time I met Don, I had been a serious photographer for
almost twenty years. I had been very involved in eastern mysticism virtually my
whole life, and martial arts since I was six years old. I had my photographs
shown in galleries around the world and used in tons of publications. In
addition, I had made several documentaries in Asia. So, when Don and I started
working together, I was ready.
I have to ask you because I
have seen it written in several places. Is it true that you were a monk?
Yes, it is. I was first a
Bramacharaya and then a Sanyass (a Swami) for several years.
How did that affect your life?
It is pretty simple and
straightforward — though I no longer wear the orange robes, the essence of who
that person was has never left me. I simply am more interactive with modern
society.
Your early filmmaking is
closely linked to Donald G. Jackson. How did you two work together? Was it a
democracy?
No. A democracy indicates that
there are two or more points of view. This was not the case with the films Don
and I created. We worked together as a single-minded team. Sometimes he would
have the idea. Sometimes I would have it. But, we never doubted each other’s
end results.
Some people refer to Donald G.
Jackson as your mentor. Is this true?
Creatively, we were an equal
team. But, when I first met Don, he certainly had much more experience in the
independent film industry than I did. So, in that regard, yes, it is true. In
fact, when he was living the last few months of his life in the hospital,
before he died, he would introduce me to all of his doctors and nurses as his son.
So, I guess he viewed me as a son. But, in reality, I was the computer guy. So,
when the digital age hit, it was me who was guiding the ship. But also, if you
look at my life prior to meeting Don, what I had accomplished stands clearly on
its own merits. Plus, the minute Don and I finished the first two films we made
together: The Roller Blade Seven and Return of the Roller Blade Seven, I
immediately went off to make my own films. So, I see the early time of our
collaboration as Don was the technical end and I was the creative and spiritual
side — as he always would turn to me for spiritual advice. Later in his life he
would always say about me, “The student has become the master.” So, make of
that what you will.
There have been many critics
of Donald G. Jackson. Was there a downside to working with him?
Yeah, there were many. To put it
kindly, Don was a complicated guy. But, he always treated me with the utmost
respect. And, we made some great films together. So, even though there was
always a price to pay, that was attached to working with him, what we created
would not have been created had we not teamed up.
Where did he get inspiration
for films?
In regards to filmmaking, he had
an interesting characteristic. Some may call it undesirable. In that he was a
lot like Quentin Tarantino. He could view previously created projects — whether
they be comic books, movies, or whatever, and then reinterpret them to suit his
own ends. Don was notorious for confiscation, or at least attempting to
confiscate, other people’s ideas. He tried to do that with me a few times.
What happened?
No comment.
How do the films you made with
Donald G. Jackson differ from the films you have made without him?
Don was a comic book orientated
guy. Much of his inspiration came from that genre. Me, I am an urban kid. I was
born and raised in some of the worst parts of L.A. So, that’s my inspiration. I
love the abstract beauty of the inner city and the stories the city has to
tell.
What is the symbolism of the
Happy Face emblem that is seen in the films you made with Donald G. Jackson?
That was basically Don’s
creation. You have to look back to the 1970s to see the inception of this. In
the 1970s the Happy Face was everywhere. So, Don took this and made it a
commentary on society and a signature in his films. It was one of those things
that each of us, as we get older, hold on to in order to remember a specific
era that meant something to us. And, that was Don’s.
In virtually all of your
films, there is at least one image of the Buddha. How does that tie into your
overall filmmaking message?
Don had the Happy Face, mine is
the Buddha. It is just my way of subtly suggesting that the audience stay
conscious and embrace the mystical.
You have filmed several of your movies in Asia and virtually all of your films, at least partially, in Hollywood. What can you tell us about that?
That is my yin and yang. I was
born in Hollywood and grew up in South-central L.A. and Hollywood. Hollywood is
the center of the universe for filmmaking. But, Asia is where my heart is.
Asia’s abstract mystical nature, its beauty – that is who I am. So, I film
there whenever I have the chance and then come back to Hollywood to add the
structure to the story. The other side of it is, I am from Hollywood, and so I know
it inside and out. But, the rest of the world does not. They see Hollywood as
this grand illusion — the place to be. In my films I try to show the more
gritty side of Hollywood, to illustrate the true nature of this city.
There are certain people, other
than Donald G. Jackson, that have worked in a production capacity with you on
several of your films, most noticeably Hae Won Shin, Kenneth H. Kim and Kevin
Thompson. What can you tell us about that?
Well, Hae Won has worked with me
since I first got into the industry. She has helped me in many ways — in
virtually every capacity. She has a degree in photography, so she has been my
cinematographer; she has helped me in production and has been an actress in my
films when I need to fill in the storylines. Ken, I met early in my emersion
into the industry. In fact, I met him when we were actors on one of the first
films I was cast in. After that, he helped me put some of my early projects
together and we did another film together a couple of years ago. I was
introduced to Kevin when I was about to begin production on Undercover X. We
needed one final lead-actor and Richard Magram, who was producing the L.A.
portion of the film with me, suggested Kevin. And, he was perfect. Kevin is one
of those people who just, “Gets it.” He completely understands my style of
filmmaking. I call him up and tell him I am putting a new project together. He
doesn’t even ask what his character will be. He just asks, “When and where.” He
is a great guy and a great actor to work with.
Do you think it is important
to work with people like that?
Absolutely. I think every
filmmaker; whether they are in the low or the high budget side of the industry
finds cast and crewmembers that they work with over-and-over again. By working
with someone you know, you understand what to expect and this just makes every
project easier and better.
It seems that your early films
were martial art orientated. That has seemed to change. Can you tell the
readers about that?
You have to understand, I have
been a martial artist since I was six years old and watching people beat each
other up on film has just gotten boring. But, more than that, most martial
artists who are actors have really bad attitudes. I just don’t want to deal with
them anymore.
Another thing I have noticed
about the evolution of your films is that you have begun to use much smaller
casts.
Yes, that’s true.
Can you tell us about that?
Again, it has just been an
evolution for me. I used to like to add a lot of character-driven texture to my
films. That meant there were a lot of people in my films. Some had large parts
and some roles were much smaller. Now, I see my films much more as intense
character studies. So, I keep the number of cast members way down.
What is next on the horizon
for Zen Filmmaking?
Zen Filmmaking will forever
evolve. It is not a static entity that cannot move forward or be reinterpreted.
Each filmmaker who uses Zen Filmmaking, as a basis for their filmmaking, will
find and evolve their own method of using it as a foundational factor for a
freer style of filmmaking.
What advice do you have for
filmmakers?
Drink a bottle of Italian red
wine every night. Go out and a have a latte or cappuccino at least once a day
at a coffee house. Workout in a gym several times a week. And. Live. Because
this is where all the inspiration for filmmaking comes from — living!
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